Also called "Auto-triple" or even just "combo", what I mean by auto-combo is the ability to hold down multiple attack keys and have the C:SI weapon perform three attacks (four if you include the fact that #3 is a double-attack) in a row.
I’ve never liked this "feature" (or is it a misbug?), preferring instead to explicitly press the keys that perform the attacks that I want, in the order that I want them to be performed in. In fact, when I first discovered that this would be a consequence of the way the C:SI attack code was designed, I "fixed" it in the Wave Katana’s code.
This led to a few comments of praise by some members of the community who felt the same as I do, and a great many more comments that the Wave "can’t combo" and that the missing feature was a large reason that many people wouldn’t use the Wave. In fact, one person even told me via email in no uncertain terms that without "auto-triple", they would not use any of my weapons. Autocombo was required.
I finally capitulated, and version 2.0.3 once again allows people to use autocombo. Several people have thanked me for re-adding it, and I have noticed that many people who had previously owned a Wave but were never seen actually using it are now occasionally seen using it in combat.
For the new sword I’m building (I know, it’s taking forever) I redid almost all of the control code in a quest to discover whether it’s possible to make the transitions between "ready" or "block" and "attack" a little smoother. I also spent a huge amount of time making sure that the ability to move from one attack to the next without rapid-fire key spamming was as smooth and reliable as I can make it, and so far I’m pretty happy with my results. But it doesn’t auto-combo.
Already I’ve had a few beta testers complain about (or at least mention) the fact that the new sword doesn’t autocombo, and until this morning I was on the fence about whether it would do so by the time it was released.
I guess my thinking is that if it’s possible to perform the same attacks in the same amount of time and without having to spam the keys, there’s no need for autocombo. Apparently 75% of my beta testers disagree with that.
So, I guess I simply don’t understand. What makes autocombo so appealing? Why do (some) people feel that a sword is inferior if it doesn’t have it? What am I missing here?
[UPDATE] You can also continue the discussion on the Official C:SI Forums, where Atrus has started the thread "Why do people like ‘AutoCombo’?"
12 Comments
I don’t get it either. I press each combo button at the moment it’s needed. That way I exert myself less and react better to changes in a person’s attacks. I train all of my students not to autocombo. One of the things I dislike about it is that sometimes it will complete after a stun. I think it would be a great good if auto-combo was stripped from all of the weapons however I am open to the possibility that perhaps I, too, am missing something.
I just tested the combos in the katana you dropped me. I don’t miss the autocombos at all in this. It feels tighter to have them absent, more precise. I’m unsure why anyone would miss the autocombos. I think they create bad habits.
As an aside, these new animations are shweeeeet.
I didn’t know about autocombo until I heard about the issue with the Wave a few months ago. I don’t use combos often, but I tried using autocombo a few times and I didn’t like. It disrupted the rhythm I get into when I’m dueling.
If putting in autocombo in your new sword means getting rid of those improvements to the transitions, I would say leave it out. There are other swords people can buy if they want autocombo. Have you started a discussion about this on the forums? I think more people would participate in this discussion there.
Ok, time to stir the pot…
I remember reading in the old forums (http://www.combatsi.com/wordpress/) that auto-combo was originally a exploit that was discovered very much like the jump-slash or the tyrant exploit (or whatever you want to call it). I wanted to go back and check this out but the forums are now locked.
The Auto-Combo (sometimes known as the double-combo) or triple-combo feature is a small competitive advantage (IMO). I believe I can get off two strikes faster with that, then if I spam the keys. Most tankers and I consider myself somewhat of a tanker will rarely use the auto-combo close up as I do find it easier to read and react to someone without it, while I tank. However, with that said, it has been mentioned before that the game is made up of tenth of a second. I know that doesn’t mean much with a single strike but overall, in a normal spar, that could mean a lot. With that said, I don’t know if there is an argument for or against it unless you believe it truly does cut off a tenth of a second like I do. If you don’t believe that it’s true and that by double clicking the keys you get the same result, then why would you care? Frankly, I believe the Wave has to be competitive with the other swords to be marketable. If this feature was removed, I doubt that sales would be strong. Bad habit or not, the auto-combo is here to stay unless it is removed from all the other weapons. A fanatic would also then suggest that the jump-slash be removed
As a side note, not to long ago before the latest update, the 2nd or 3rd strike would NOT stun your opponent and many times, I believe, I got in the second strike in before someone could counter. Also, when I use a run-n-gun style, I believe the combos work to my advantage. Take the jump slash for example; I usually use an auto-combo here. If I’m too early for the jump the second slash works, if you jump with me I will get in the next slash. I’m not sure if this is considered good form or good playing. I also use it if you’re a runner. Some consider it strategy to run and then turn and hit. I believe I have a better opportunity to auto-combo you and get my hit in. Sometimes the first hit misses but I have noticed that the avatar tends to “slide” after I have been running and if the first misses the 2nd my hits. There are all sort of small examples like this. BTW, I rarely use the triple-combo as that usually sets you up for the special as it locks your avatar in place to long.
Mal suggested that auto-combos breed bad habits but I am struggling with that concept. Not using a tool that can cut a tenth of a second off of your game should not be considered to be a bad habit. I would consider it a bad habit if I was not getting something in exchange for it. Since I believe that the auto-combo gets me that extra speed I have exchanged that for reaction. To me, it’s a fair trade.
JulieAnne
Taking Colin’s suggestion to heart I think he’s correct. So here you folks have it : C:SI Forums – Why do people like AutoCombo?
As one of the testers of the prototype, I have not missed the auto combo. I prefer to pick the attack i will use and when to use it, not spam the keys. And like Mal, I teach my students not to use the auto combo, but to use patience and look for the opening, and strike then. The auto combo can leave you open; if you trigger it and get blocked you are stunned and may not realize it till you in turn have been slashed a couple of times. But I too may be missing something here as well!
I am with Julie on this one. I like to use auto-combo, and will do so “if” my opponent gives me the opportunity. The “if” is a critical contingency. There are some people I never use auto combo with, there are other’s I combo the heck out of, because they give me that opening. For example, there is one experienced fighter who has the bad habit of opening up attacks in a tanking situation with a double kick. I simply counter with W and then A D, and he takes 50-60 HP of damage while I take 15-20. Until he changes his strategy, I will continue to use this tactic against him (I have even pointed this out to him, but to no avail). As a counter point, I often see people comboing the air! Bad use of a triple, bad habit, and I run in and slash on the fourth swing. Point is, IMHO like everything else, auto-comboing is a tactic to be used when the right situation arises. People develop bad habits about everything, not just auto-combos.
This is probably way off topic, but I’ve noticed for a while that when you spam the hits with an arch blade the second and third hits come noticeably faster than the other swords. An especially bad one is kick, slash, block.. that block seems to come up faster after the attack than anything else, including the new hyper fast weapons. Maybe getting rid of auto combo would fix that?
Can you duplicate that with a Red Sunset? If so, I will look into the issue as soon as possible. It may be that autocombo is related, it’s too early for me to say with any confidence. Thanks for the info, though!
I know I can do it with the Ring, and see it all the time with the HOD (the kick/slash/block one). I can show you pretty easy though, I could stand in front of you, kick you, and slash.. you try to block the slash and get me before my block comes up, and it will never happen. But with the other swords its easy.
The combos piling up on each other seems to happen about 50% of the time, like they crowd onto each other. I’m not sure how to get it to happen each time though. Tanuki noticed how fast the combos come after the first attack and we tried it and could get them to crowd up only part of the time. I think this might be part of the “HOD is magic” stuff you hear once in a while.
Well, that’s enough for me to at least try and see if I can figure it out, I think.
I’ll try to get a hold of you in world, I’m mostly using a new account now and not on as much anymore though.