I’m in the middle of a heavy push to complete two real-world projects at work, and don’t have a lot of time to write about this idea at the moment, but I wanted to at least take the time to ask for everyone’s thoughts and suggestions on the idea of implementing a basic Achievements system for Combat: Samurai Island.
Please keep in mind that I’m not suggesting anything "official" at this point, I just want to take advantage of my recent (and completely unearned) ban from Second Life to do something fun to show my appreciation for the C:SI community.
By now, many of you know that C:SI has a live Twitter feed to show combat results in near real-time. Straight combat results is interesting for all of five minutes, then it just gets repetitive. I thought it might be fun to throw in the occasional "So and so has earned such and such achievement" when someone meets a given set of criteria.
I’m thinking of stuff like this :
Noob-Killer – Defeated 10 people whose combat ratings are much lower in a single day.[UPDATE] This is apparently more controversial than I thought, and won’t be done. See comments below.- Rising Star – Increased Combat Rating by 1,000 in a single day.
- Powerhouse (I, II, III) – Defeated 50, 100, or 500 higher rated opponents during the current week.
- Shugyosha – Fought 100 opponents in a single day.
Above are just initial thoughts, probably not well though out, but hopefully enough to give an idea of the kinds of things I’m thinking about.
So what I’d really like is to hear your thoughts. Is this kind of thing worthwhile? Would it be interesting? What kinds of achievements would you like to see?
37 Comments
Although I’m not very active any more, I do think achievements will be fun. Others may disagree because it would mean people potentially grinding or trying to create certain situations in order to earn achievements. One thing that I think enhances those types of systems is the really random/out-of-the-ordinary achievements, eg if someone dies within .01 seconds of killing their opponent in a duel.
I have noticed the new ranking thing seems to work as a who’s hot today kind of thing. I like the idea of highlighting people that are moving up drastically… even though its mostly going to be an alt detector.
Are you sure you want “Noob Killer” as an “achievement though? That’s kinda used as an insult.
I think you’re on to something here. This could be really interesting if the right categories are picked. As it stands, it’s really hard not to look at combat rating and compare yourself to others.
I agree with Kasumi that “Noob Killer” might be a problem and could present someone with the wrong implication. If you spend the day fighting your Sensei and get your butt kicked 50 times in the process your Sensei will be labeled a “Noob Killer” even though he/she is trying to teach you. Not that I get my butt kicked by Shiori or Saphire 50 times in a day – I usually stop at 49.
Now I can’t stop thinking of additional categories to include…
Dude! Totally! The XBOX 360 has achievments and it’s sweet. The replay value is upped by a lot with them. Though I think there should be a nice mix of them. Like easy nooby ones, moderate ones and hard ones for the hardcore. It wouldn’t hurt to include Samurai Edo into this. Like found tanto in well. Or somethind like that.I think it would boost activity for C:SI and the Samurai Edo sim. Random crazy ones like Mal suggested would be awesome too. Like Failed to complete jump slash or missed with a special ten times. XD As far as making noobs look stupid… so what?! That should push them to get better or leave crying to thier mommies! lol Oooooooooo! I just had the greatest idea! An achievment for kicking a Linden… in the junk! ahahahahaha! I’d totally do it! It’d be worth it. lol The pay out could be that you unlock a special color combo to let people know of your greatness! lol Ah man the ideas are flooding my heeaad! I is gonna explode! *pop* lol
Well, it was meant to be humorous. I’ve often wished I could flag noob-killers as such, haha.
Ooh. Yeah, I love it when that happens. I could totally seeing making one for that.
Yeah, good point, athough that’s why “Practice Mode” was included. But yeah, I’ll drop that one.
I dunno how I’d do that one, though…
I know a few Lindens have C:SI weapons, so maybe if a non-Linden user kills a Linden user in battle I could award that one?
I’ll have to think on it, because the phrase just has such a nice ring to it that I really want to make it an achievement somehow!
You could have a whole series of weapon-based ones:
Kill 100 people with the Wave
Kill 100 with the Black Rose
etc.
Win a duel with every type of weapon
Win a duel against every type of weapon using the Naginata
Win a duel against every type of weapon using the Wave
etc.
This would increase sales of everyone’s weapons too
Greetings,
I think that people’s worth is his/her action(what did he/she carry out in the community?).
Example Kasumi and Shidji, They’re famous players. Because they’re skill fighters? Yes, And many fighters were helped by them.
The fighter which isn’t published in the top’s 100 table isn’t famous. I never think so. Example Rayno Soonhi Moondance LordMerle Aimee more… People who helped many people.
So Although I think that the existence of a title doesn’t determine people’s worth, I think that a special title becomes the material which activates a community.
A special title:
I kicked linden(?) – If someone kills linden, he/she will get a commemorative title. It’s just commemoration!.
Noob-Killer – People who want to raise a rate certainly will try to kill only those who can win certainly.
People who are going to help a new player also kill those who can win certainly in the process in which fight skill is taught.
Although they are people of a different kind, if only a result is seen, they will be both noob killer…
Before, I looked at people who kill the new player which just grasped bokken using katana… It should be “presented” to people like them.
Shugyosha – I think that this’s interesting. Although I play C:SI two years, my fight skill isn’t so much excellent. And My english’s broken english. My french was only learned for two weeks… So I can’t talk with peoples that I don’t use a dictionary as one hand.
I got the opportunity of the alternating current with the people of various countries at playing C:SI. Since I can meet many people, I play C:SI. Supposing the number of the persons who fought in one day is shown, it will activate people’s alternating current. I think so.
I personally like achievements that are humorous or make note of certain play style. Just not that ones that people actively try to make it their goal to get. I don’t believe achievements should be used as part of a game’s design, but they are fun as a kinda add-on experience.
As for the “Junk Kick” achievement (Thanks spell check! lol, when you hit anyone, doesn’t it get recorded some how? Like a object bump thingy? I know almost nothing about scripting but, there’s what I think.
Who is Shidji and which Kasumi? lol I know of the others. Aimee (I miss you!), Rayno, Soonhi and even Moondance. They are really good fighters and people know of them by what they have done. Everyone that’s anyone knows these guys. XD
As for achievements goes, I still love the idea. I kinda, kinda don’t agree with Esprite. I like getting achievements on my XBOX 360. They are sometimes a nice surprise. I do agree that ones like “Noob Killer” where a person would just pounds on noobs all day to get the achievement, is kinda lame. But, there are some people that just like to grind at things. ie Korean gold farmers! lol (I’m mostly Korean so, I get to say that. Don’t think you can! lol jk jk)
Well, I think a nice change to C:SI would be nice. I think making promises (alignment and skill anyone?) and just teasing people isn’t cool though. :p That’s right! I said it! We’re all thinking it. I’m just saying it! lol Don’t hate me plox! O_O!
With that said, I shall run aways nao! lol
I might agree that they don’t belong as part of the Samurai Island core design, though in more typical games like First-Person Shooters I think they add an important dimension to what is otherwise highly repetitive gameplay.
This idea comes primarily as a result of reading three Achievements-related articles recently:
One of the main things that got me thinking about whether it was even possible to do in C:SI (and it always seems like “Could I make that work” is my primary initial motivator) was this comment:
and this one, from the other article:
One thing I have learned while developing the C:SI stats stuff is that even in C:SI people like to have their bragging rights, and those passages above really make me think of how I could do something sort of “on the side” for the community that they might really enjoy.
Yeah, I really love Valve’s achievements in Team Fortress 2, and I still do. Though with some games like LOTRO they really milk the concept of achievements making you kills hundreds to thousands of the same mob. With different levels of the same achievement you would custom titles and experience. I got tired of it very quickly as it seemed to just be an excuse to add a dimension to grinding. Achievements can be done right and have been done right, but I’m talking game mechanics as in achievements significantly effecting how a player plays a game instead of adding to the overall experience of playing the game. So maybe I worded my original comment badly.
Dooo eeeeet! XD
Doooo eeeeet! XD
Dooo eeeeet!
I agree that they shouldn’t be the primary motivator, but that they can be excellent when done right as a fun addition to the other things that make the game (or in our case, combat system) compelling in the first place.
Where’s my XBOX 360 Arcade version? XD
Hey Malachi you killed ne consistently 10 spars out of 1, while after ny rating with masmako is no better after two hours with about five wins….now if we were to look at the scores u would both appear to be noob killer…those numbers compiled are misleading and are empirically objective…they do not take into account factors such as fps- connection speed-and other factors as such. Subjective implication are never accounted for- hence highlighting based on scores alone or conputerised calculations is misleading and non conclusive …I like the idea of the csi community taking the time to acknowledge and recognize individual achievement/s. Keeping in mind to keep it fun and fresh …urgh…more later texting from blackberry in a car is painfully difficult…shessh…hugz
hey i got one, well if its possible that is, how about something that shows you how many slashes or kicks someone used to win a fight?
just an idea :S
I would like to make one comment about the “Noob Killer” rating that is being proposed. We all know that there are those that do feed on noobs for whatever reason. Not much Bushido there. My concern is this: What about active Sensei? Part of the reality of training with ‘noobs’ or new students to C:SI is that they are killed over and over, that is how they learn. We all have spent countless hours looking at our own Sensei’s feet on the mat. I may want to show a student a combo or to emphasize their lack of blocking and I will kill them over and over until they get it. All the while explaining what they are doing wrong. But I really dont want to have the label Noob Killer as a result of teaching. Lessons would end at 9 spars
The rating system that you are kicking around is a GREAT idea and I think it would also be fun, it does add some competition to spars and it should be persued. Just be carefull of unintended consequences.
Would be nice if there was a way to rate fighters against a standard instead of against each other. Might de-emphasize the “Mirror mirror on the wall, who’s the fairest of us all” kind of thinking, while giving people something to strive for. Maybe trot out that bot Robby made and make use of him/her…oh, and you could even set it to copy the ping and fps of the opponent to normalize that as well. Just a thought.
Not sure why people are focusing so much on noob-killer, but when I originally wrote that, I was envisioning a TOP-50 fighter killing someone with a combat rating 800+ points lower than them (for example), over and over again.
That is what is meant by newb-killing, and when the only metric you have for bragging rights is the win/loss and total duels numbers, it can be quite a problem. It is one of the reasons that all C:SI swords have a Practice Mode, since Practice Mode duels are never recorded.
Since that one seems to be so controversial, it will not be implemented. I only wanted something fun, not something that would concern people in any way
Lol… one more thing about the noob killer idea… even though the horse is not only dead but dragged off the road…
A week or so ago I sparred with someone who was 2 years old in CSI but gone for a while. He is definitely not a noob, but I got a lot of wins on him and I don’t think his rating was that high. I think if I got noob killer next to my name that would be unfair, but then if they look up who I was fighting, this guy would be labeled a noob when he isn’t. And then some people WANT to spar you over and over, and seem to even enjoy the lopsidedness of it, and feel like its worth their while because it improves them. I remember Alyssa saying she used to spar Tankuki like 50 times a day to get better, and I used to try to get together with Alyssa to do 10 or more a day for that same reason.
Also Saphire mentioning unintended consequences is a really good point. For example, I really don’t want to do kings anymore because I’m afraid if I survive 3 good fighters and near death for the fourth fighter how is not that great, I get to see 50 points knocked off my rating… I shouldn’t care and probably won’t in a month, but it is effecting my thinking and what I’m willing to do now =\
I really like Colin’s idea about winning a certain amount with each weapon. Or maybe something about winning a certain amount or against a certain caliber of player across different sims. That might help some of the insulation and get people exploring each other’s CSI sims.
I really do like this Elo rating though and hope it stays, even though it kind of drives me nuts.
NOOB KILLER – I had meant this to be a humorous example, but it seems to gotten more attention than I originally felt was warranted.
It’s easy to give lots of hypothetical examples of someone getting that label where it’s not warranted, and I think we’ve had plenty of those here.
Let us please continue to focus on what might be good and fun about an achievement system, and less on that particular example? As Kasumi says, that one is dead and in the dirt
As I explained to you a little bit ago, I’m not feeling well and am having trouble keeping up with the comments today. I would really like to address this particular point in quite some detail, and discuss it further, but I am simply not up to it today.
Please feel free to keep at me on this one, I feel it’s worth further discussion, though perhaps not necessarily here on this particular blog post.
Greetings.
Although I don’t know many about Shidji Woollahra and Kasumi Hashi, When griefer attacked meiji, I asked for Shidji’s help by IM several times, and she solved it promptly. And Many fighters which I know, They said we learned from them. Therefore, I think they’re c:si’s good peoples.
Although I don’t have xbox, investigated, Maybe I understood takuan’s intention.
I think that an honorable title will activate a community if it is published appropriately.
The player which asks for the basis which can boast of self will ask for it.
And The surroundings will admire her/him, even when the player which doesn’t get interested gets it.
Also the title showing a unique achievement. Example “Slashed/Kicked linden(‘s c:si player)”, It’s a commemoration title than an honorable title.
“rate which shows honor”…
Not so few experienced persons whom I know will adjust ability, if opponent is a beginner. I also do it.
Why? In order for a new fighter to study skill, much time and much death are required. When a new fighter dies in tens of seconds, Can he/she study skill? I don’t think so…
If beginner can fight with them for a long time, they can study various things, and the beginner can sometimes win from an experienced person. I learned so.
But The present rate calculation carries out minus evaluation to an experienced person, when it occurs.
They fight with many experienced persons and can regain the rate of the lost more than. However, their rate has gone down until they did it.
Supplementary…
I don’t deny competing for skill. Because it’s interesting. Therefore, I’m going to make skill sharp for myself.
The reason for helping a new person.
Reason 1 – When I’m a new c:si player, many c:si fighters helped me.
Reason 2 – And if new players increase in number, I can fight with more opponents. It leads to activation of a c:si community. I think so.
When people start bringing up the whole “honorable” stuff, you know things are getting to serious. lol So, who doesn’t get that this is for fun and is just an idea? lol I’m sure that whatever changes MAY be made, won’t end the world. Sooooo back up and let a person breath. Keep it fun people! lol :3
masmako. I was just saying that I don’t know who Shidji Woollahra and Kasumi Hashi are. I’m sure they are nice people. I have just never met them.
I don’t think he was talking about the XBOX 360. That was just how I could relate to it. :3
As for the training a person… There is practice mode. lol I’ve trained with practice mode. When I trained, I taught my “student” what I knew and had them fight other people. I feel there’s no better way to learn than to actually do it. You don’t see a karate teacher beating the crap out of his students do you? I don’t. I see them have them fight people on the same level. :3
Either way this goes, it was fun to talk about. I even blew the dust off my sword.
See ya in the ring peoples!
Greetings, Shindo.
Yes So Xbox isn’t important. Robby’s going to display record of a c:si player objective intelligibly. I think so.
Record’s example… He beat the high-level fighter. She beat opponent only by jump attack. He kicked the c:si player of linden. She won 100 persons by wave, taketori, and kodachi, respectively. More…
The proposal which you showed is 1st and my proposal is 2nd proposal.
And Since talk swerved to “byroad”(This’s not so important a talk), I want to once interrupt the talk with you.
I’m not exactly sure what you said but, I just wanna squeeze the cuteness out of you! >:3
Shindo, LOL I know you’ve met Kasumi (at least once) and Shidji before.
Unstoppable – Defeated X number of opponents in a row. (could go multiple tiers – 5, 10, 20, etc)
Skilled – Defeated an opponent without the use of a special
blah
Two Birds With One Stone – slaughtered two or more avatars with one special…
Here is a good joke… Ghost – Talked to Ronin Giles for at least one minute in-world with a C:SI weapon worn.
Shindo, you’ve fought me and so through the skills of my blade you have met both Kasumi and Shidji! Ok, I’m going to stop pretending I’m in an anime now.